Tecsan, whats going on is a white police officer was crucified for doing his job by trying to arrest a black drugged up combative resister. Lots of whites get killed by police, more than blacks do, but you wont hear a peep about them.
'combative resister'? He was lying on the ground in handcuffs!
Is begging for your life combative?
Yes, white people get killed by police too. People are not protesting police violence
for the fun of it, they want changes. They demand rules for some checks and balances on the police, which would also protect white lives.
Yes he was combative while resisting arrest. When the police tell you to get in the car, you comply without any backtalk & don't resist arrest. Yes he most definitely was combative while resisting arrest. And no, "protesting" (looting robbing starting fires attacking police officer's), does not protect whites. I don't know how to link but there was going to be a protest until BLM found out the person was white so they called it off. I'd love to hear your opinion on that. --------------------------------------- added after 52 minutes
Ananas, ZeroHedge . Portland police rush to tell BLM the person they shot & killed was white so no need to protest.
Does this white mans life not count? To me he matters!
Maybe he had been resisting arrest before, but I've seen no video of that, so it could be just the cops lying about it. I've only seen a defenseless man being murdered.
If you think backtalk is enough to kill someone over, you are calling for fascism.
Even if it was true that "Portland police rush to tell BLM the person they shot & killed was white so no need to protest." (which I don't believe), then who is wrong there? The Portland police.
If you don't want white people being killed by the cops either, join the protests.
Maybe the government would actually do something about police violence,
if it wasn't only black people protesting.
If your country doesn't solve your police violence problem, the protests will continue and become harder. If you think you can suppress the protests, you are wrong.
If you want an actual civil war, keep supporting cops murdering black people.
How should I know if that white guy who was killed was not actually threatening
the lives of the police or innocent bystanders? Should I just take your word for it?
I'm sure it happens, but I'm also 100% sure black people get killed for less
than white people and more often.
granted,once the thug was in the cops car handcuffed, he should have been left there and the complaints dealt with by ems,or just haul his ass on down to the jail. Dragging him back out and putting him on the ground,I don't understand.UNless like I have said before,there may have been history between the cop and the thug since they worked together and the cop saw a chance to shut him up for good.I do not agree with the long sentance,time served was enough for a involuntary manslaughter charge which is about all I see the cop should have been charged with. As for the other 3 that no one mentions, I don't see that they should be punished at all,they did NOTHING so they are not liable.
had they got involved, then yes,perhaps guilty of something.but they stood by and let chauvin do his thing on his own,shit in his own bed or whatever you may call it.
It's true that more white people are getting killed by the police than black people,
in numbers.
About 2x as many white people are killed vs black. However black people are 13% of your population, so black people are 3.8x more likely to get killed by police.
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In relation to crime; in total 2.6x more white people get arrested than black people.
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So, it's true that more black people are getting killed by police, because black people commit 2.9x more crimes per capita.
However 3.8x more black people get killed per capita vs 2.9x more black people commit crimes per capita.
Do you think that people should just trust that the police doesn't kill anyone
without cause?
Or do you think some protest is warranted, as long as they were 100% peaceful
and they didn't call themselves 'Black Lives Matter', but something more neutral,
like 'Stop Police Violence'?
I know that most police do not kill because of color...However; there are a few bad apples in every basket and you know this...Just remember, get rid of police and tell me what cities would look like...Yes, they would all be burning down...We have seen it...
Those bad apples have been very busy. It's not bad apples, it's a culture. Have you seen the video of cops laughing about brutalizing an old woman with dementia, who forgot to pay in a store? They laughed about the sound that her arm breaking made, while she was in the holding cell for hours. There was a new female cop, that looked uncomfortable with that, but she went along with it. Nice lesson for the next generation of cops. I know this is anecdotal, but there are many videos of cops behaving like assholes (arresting women naked, killing dogs, flipping cars, etc.).
At one point it will be someone you care about. You can prevent it by demanding basic humanity from your cops. Getting rid of the police is bullshit (that's not what defund the police means, that's a strawman), you actually set standards on police
and enforce them, just like the police does to you.
You are the employer of the police, you pay their salary. Would you accept violent, abusive behavior from your employees, if it was your business?
Fox4: Video shows officers laughing, fist-bump after arresting woman with dementia:
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Fox didn't show the actual conversation. CBS did:
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The policemen in the US kill people very easily. He shouldn't have killed him. It was totally unnecessary. A totally unnecessary loss of life. Every life is precious. The policeman had issues. The victim died for trying to use a fake paper note. That kind of abuse of power shouldn't be allowed in a democratic country.
Too many guns. Too much violence.
From outside, it looks like there's
a constant mini war going on in the US,
one whose intensity is growing year after year.
I'm not a sociologist or historian but
when a country reaches the level that
most people are so scared that they have
to equip themselves with dozens of guns,
pistols, machine guns, bazookas, ... I don't
know what, then you know that that country
is in decline: its inhabitants do not trust
one another and feel they need to have mini-armies.
And the police force is encouraging violence.
And people believe that this is normal.
Why don't they read some history or look
around to see that this is evidence of
decline? Even if they have 10 or 100 times
the number of guns they have, it's futile.
I don't know what to say. It's so sad.
I feel sorry for all the people there
that feel constantly threatened.
Ideally, police shouldn't have guns either.
Someone tries to steal candy from a shop,
or pay with fake notes, or commits a minor
crime.... you don't send a policeman with a
gun there. Unless everyone is loaded with
bullets and guns then, I get it, guns
bring guns, violence begets violence,
it's a never ending vicious circle.
I'm so happy I live in a place where I'm afraid
of nothing. We can live the doors unlocked,
nobody has guns, we just have to deal with
pretty thefts occasionally.
A situation of someone stealing can escalate in a hurry to something requiring a gun to prevent.They don't like witness's.
Like I said in another thread,don't like cops,fine,just don't dial 911.
They have a important job.without them,it would be stone age behavoir. --------------------------------------- added after 8 minutes
it is a system using the telephone to call for emergency help.1 call can get police,fire,ambulance.
The few times I have used it I found it to be very frustrating.
The operator ask 5400 questions so fast you can't answer the first 1 and if you are in the middle of a emergency,say someone dieing, you find yourself trying to help the dieing ,and wanting to cuss the dumb bastard out over the phone asking you your name,your date of birth and so on while you simply asking for EMS to come quick to 3421 East first street quick to save a persons life.
I am not American or live in the US. Take for example, a Kyrgyzhian citizen. They would not necessarily know the American rescue phone numbers.
Let me reverse the question and you'll understand. Do you know the emergency phone number in Macao?
Does this little graph represent people shot for trying to take advantage of other's rights...Do you need an example???Other countries do not mind when someone steals from your property, but here we do...
Exactly. We don't care much if we lose material things because we don't even want to have too many possessions. Possessions make people unhappy because they want more and more and more. Happiness lies in simplicity. We learn, from early age, that we shouldn't strive to acquire much but be happy with few things. One friend made some money with his farm (he grows fruit like pears and apples) and for a while he thought he should buy a bigger car. He just owned a truck for his work and a little Fiat for pleasure. He said he'd buy a big Honda. We talked to him out of it. We told him that he'd have to spend more money for fuel, more money for insurance, and, what's worse, he'd drive longer distances and pollute the environment more but also be worried that someone might steal his fancy Honda. He understood that a worry-free life is much more important than a bigger car.
We like to live peacefully and not own much, not eat much, not have big houses. Possessions, we know, make you a slave, just like drugs do. In fact, one of the reasons that people take drugs is because they may have lost 1 million out of their dozens of millions. The more you have, the more you worry, the more anxious you are, the more guns you collect, the more drugs you take, the more unfulfilling your life is. Having nothing is of course terrible, but having a lot is equally bad. So there's an optimum. If one has a little money, enough food to eat, few posessions and lots of friends then one is maximally happy.
Well you just admitted that there are criminals there...Fancy new car and have to worry about it being stolen...Someone tries to steal mine, I will not just watch, they will get capped if they do not comply with me to stop and wait for the police to arrive...
We leave in peace and there's
no reason not to trust people.
I leave my door unlocked and it's fine.
Not always, but quite a lot.
My neighbours do the same.
There's nothing to steal anyway because
we're not rich. Maybe a thief can take
the radio or the computer. I don't care.
Never happened. We don't need guns here.
That's why I say I'm lucky.
In bigger cities there's police who help.
But, unlike what we read about the US,
police do not kill. I do understand that
weapons are needed in the US because the
society is built on guns and if everyone
else around you is armed, then you feel
the pressure to get armed too. I do understand the rationale
governing your society, but not
many societies in the world are like this.
After all I read, I'm really scared to
go again to the US for any extended
periods of time. Because I'd have to buy
guns. And this would make me kill someone
and killing another human being, even
when fully justified, is, for me,
something that I wouldn't be able
to live with in my life.
I'd probably end up with severe guilt
and depression. Like the kind of things
that happen to soldiers who are
forced, by the nature of their job,
to kill human beings.
I agree with a lot of what you said...However; I am from a very large family and only four of us have guns...I would feel bad and probably scarred for life if had to shoot someone and it was justified...Even in your country is it possible for people to get guns???(Sorry, silly question)...But I do remember years ago where we never locked our house doors or our cars, hell I still have some family members that do neither and one even leaves the keys in the car in case others want to use it...But guns are everywhere, if you take them out of the hands of the law abiding then how do you take them out of the hands of criminals???
I don't know anything about guns, I've no ideas if one can own them or not.
I agree with what you say. If there are many criminals around with guns then the whole dynamics changes.
Thanks, that was my point and most people always leave that out of the argument... There will always be criminals with guns, even in your country so why should you not feel compelled to protect yourself...
Because of what I explained. Violence isn't an issue here as in the US. The writer crime that can happen is a theft, maybe, even that doesn't happen. And who cares about a theft? We don't have much to lose because we don't own much.
That's ok man. I understand that you and all Americans need guns. Have them. That's fine. You live in a kind of society where violence is the norm, not the exception.
As I have said,somewhere in this thread,there are no winners in this situation.
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Please tell me what Starbucks has to do with the verdict? Why should that company,or anyone for that matter ,experiance a financial loss because someone was not happy with a verdict?
True. He should have obeyed the orders, no matter how trivial. But to be killed because you disobey a minor order only happens in societies where violence is institutionalized. It would not have happened in, say, the Netherlands because police aren't trained to kill and don't carry weapons. I get it, the US is very different society where guns are everywhere and so is violence, so police are trained to kill. That's what has to change. To little by little get rid of the institutionalized violence and become like a modern western country where you feel more tranquility, you aren't afraid of the mob, the police, the government,... This will result in disarmament. People won't be suspected of being able to shoot and the authorities will be more humane in response. That's what should happen. I understand, however, it can't happen overnight. Meanwhile, police must still be carrying guns and using force. They got to combat the war zone in the US streets. I'm really sorry for the state of affairs there.
Just a correction; in The Netherlands the police does carry weapons. However, they rarely resort to using them.
Below is an overview of the period 2016 - 2020:
2016
Number of shooting incidents: 34
Number of injured: 33
Number of fatalities: 4
2017
Number of shooting incidents: 23
Number of injured: 20
Number of fatalities: 3
2018
Number of shooting incidents: 27
Number of injured: 26
Number of fatalities: 3
2019
Number of shooting incidents: 16
Number of injured: 12
Number of fatalities: 4
2020
Number of shooting incidents: 22
Number of injured: 18
Number of fatalities: 5
We do have some Extraordinary Investigating Officers that do not carry firearms.
In Norway most policemen keep their firearm sealed in a locker in the patrol car.
In the UK, most policemen don't carry firearms.
The difference is that your police is trained to escalate and our police is trained to DE-escalate.
Just a correction: I don't live in the US. I'm lucky!
I don't need guns, like Americans do.
How sad can they be for feeling afraid,
every day, so afraid, it's a war there.
Thanks for the statistics.
Sorry, I forgot you're from the UK.
Actually, I do think the idea of a war zone in the streets of the US is also exaggerated by the media. They show the Black Lives Matter protests as violent mobs, but most are peaceful. The media blames murders to the BLM movement, that have nothing to do with it. The agenda for that is making it possible to beat down those protests harder and not do anything about police violence. In one state they proposed to make it legal to drive into a protest. They also proposed to hold everyone accountable for one person in a protest doing something illegal and detaining everyone until trial, without bail.
Both parties are unwilling to do anything. The Democrats were happy Chauvin got found guilty, mostly because it gets the pressure off to do anything about police violence. I've seen a sickening speech from Nancy Pelosi, where she thanks George Floyd for 'sacrificing his life for justice'. How fucking stupid is that. He was not planning to die that day and his death is just proof that justice is miles away. One asshole cop being convicted doesn't change anything.
Yes, it's stupid to call Floyd a martyr. He was not planning to be. He was an unlucky guy who died because Chauvin killed him on purpose.
Somehow, the police in the US should be told not to kill whenever they feel like it. But it's a complex problem. In a society where guns are everywhere, how do you deal with that?
Floyd was already incapacitated, but Chauvin knelt on his neck for another 9 min.
Was he trained to do that? There are lots of complaints that he did it before...
Think you should do more research an ass...9 mins really...Hope you correct your mistake...If someone is still resisting or non compliant, yes he needs to be restrained...But I somewhat agree with you, when no pulse or breathing was present then all three should have got off of him...So the incident could have been avoided if George would have just got in the vehicle...Claustrophobia is just BS...If that were true how in the hell was he in that dam mercedes ༼☯﹏☯༽
There are no what-if's about it. No cop should kill any person unless there is no other way to prevent that person from killing or seriously harming another person.
Didn't you say "all lives matter"?
Chauvin clearly intended to kill Floyd, while there was no danger to anyone,
so Chauvin is a murderer.
There are circumstances in which a cop should be punished less severe than a civilian for the same offense, but these are not such circumstances.
Chauvin is one of those 'rotten apples' that need to be dealt with. If he hadn't become a cop, he would have probably turned out as some sadistic murderer.
I do think he should not be put in prison between regular criminals, because that is cruel and unusual punishment.
And if the four officers would have let the druggie drive away and he hit and killed a child...What say you...Oh you would be fine with that...I am not trying to defend chauvin, the last 2-3 minutes were damming...
So they have to kill any druggie, because it's possible that they might kill someone? You might kill someone someday, because you're radicalizing
at an alarming rate. Should the cops preventively kill you?
You mean not put him in prison between regular criminals? Just my opinion, but
I don't think he deserves an even worse prison time than any civilian murderer.
If you put him between them, he will likely be killed very quickly. I don't think he deserves a death sentence. I also think 'prison' does not equal 'revenge'.
Prison is punishment, but it should also be rehabilitation. Not rehabilitation as a cop or any other job where he has the power to hurt people, but after he has served his time, let him be productive in a safe way.
You are fooling yourself if you think prison rehabilitates...That is a myth...Convicts in prison are treated as low life scumbags...Humiliated and force to eat crap...Ad/seg is there for a reason though a police officer cannot be put in gen/pop unless you are looking for a death sentence...Kind of like putting a child molester in gen/pop would = the same...The medical care is almost third world...
That's because you have too many people in prison. You have the biggest prison population in the world, 2,193,798 and the biggest imprisonment rate 737/100,000. It would be too expensive to even try to rehabilitate them.
The problem is that recidivism is than very high as well, so the prison population doesn't go down. It's a perpetuating cycle.
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It does strike me how you compare a bad cop with a child molester. Chauvin is bad, but he is also a victim of your system. Less than Floyd, but still worthy of some sympathy. He might be a bit easier to rehabilitate than a child molester.
So your belief is that everyone should be treated the same in prison...Hell, you have a point there, by your rule many would be killed...Remember AD SEG and what it means...
Most powerful? Sure, absolutely, no doubt about that.
The greatest? Depends on your personal preferences. I can see how the US checks all your boxes. I hope you can understand how a lefty like me would be miserable living in the US, even though I think I would do pretty well economically.
I'm already getting quite depressed from living in The Netherlands, which is
socialist compared to the US. I sometimes dream about moving to Denmark.
Bare in mind had the thug used a good bill,and left without inncident,he would still be doping and smokin today.But no,he had to act a fool,and then the snow ball started rolling down hill,end result,his death.Not aggreeing he should have died,he should have been left in the backseat cuffed until ems got there.but we can't fix that,Chauvin could have been held accountable with a involuntary manslaughter charge perhaps would have been equitable.
These things don't happen in civilised countries mate. It's only because you live in a country full of internal wars that you see these things. Everyone is armed because everyone is afraid. If the US becomes like a modern democratic country, then these killings and violence won't exist. Russia, US, China, full of violence.
Anyway, it's not my problem. But I just feel sorry for you and all Americans who have to live under these conditions.
If there wasn't hope of some time,some way of getting certian people to understand how things could work, we do have the option of leaving.But The US has alot of potential.Just need to get the crazys off the streets.
The crazies are not your problem, it's your culture of everyone for themselves.
Your empire is crumbling and it's all your own damn fault.
You will never get anywhere, if you don't start working together.
Now that I agree with mostly...But if he would have just got in the car then all would have been avoided...Also his behavior before hand has a lot to be desired...Druggie and a theif...
Now that is what I was getting at, an involuntary manslaughter charge...I do not think intent was there...He was concerned with his safety as well as the publics...Others that think different should put themselves in his place...I only say I would not have done it because my training far exceeds his...
He was guilty by a pressured jury...Hell, they all knew what it meant to hold out for 'non guilty'...Their names will be mentioned in the coming days...Which one of them wanted to risk their house being burned or pig blood smeared on their house...
I politely ask for some evidence to support that.Not saying you are wrong,not saying I am right,but I would like to hear your reasoning.
The jury was exsposed to Aunt Maxine and her threats of confrontation and inciting violence in round about ways.
They were confronted with the law enforcement gathering in preparations for the verdict. Their id's are vulnerable and could be leaked for violence against them and their homes,familys,bussiness's,hell their city in general.
Had the thug been left in the back seat for ems to deal with,none of this would be going on.So chavin did fuck up to a point but Murder? Hell no.
As for the jurys safety,hell,I wouldn't doubt that their names are on a hot list already to be ticketed and generaly annoyed by law enforcement member that feel like they and their coworkers were stabbed in the back.
Can you imagine trying to enforce a law now in that state?
Difficult at best.
Phart, there exist video that shows the cop kneeling on the victim for 9 min and 20 seconds. Anyone with a clear mind would end with the same verdic. Everyone from the president down thought he was guilty. What he could have done has nothing to do with what happened. If,after all that, the jury had reached a not guilty vote, they would be home not in any danger, but, it would have been a travesty of justice. They were not coerced to vote guilty. Their own eyes told them so.
I have some questions. Why are you and some other members so rabid to make the cop be right and Floyd wrong? What bothers your sensibilities so much? Would you feel the same if a white guy had died?
The enforcement of the law is not predicated on the general public making it easy. If you are a good person you don’t need a cop to tell you how it’s done. And if you break the law, a cop or cops will stop you.
If you will read,I have not said Chauvin was totally innocent.He made a bad call taking the thug out of the backseat in the first place.He was no longer a threat.
As for the Kneeling,there was evidence shown in the trial that indicated that may or may not have contributed. The "Beyond the shadow of a doubt" thing comes to mind when presented with the evidence of OD and heart issues.
That is why I have said that a lesser charge would have had more merits that murder.
To make the cop the bad guy totally in every friggen case that gets tossed to the court of public opionion,such as this forum, prompts people to have even less respect for the cops just simply doing their jobs.There was crooked and bad cops long before you and I were born and there will be plenty after we are gone.
But to continue at the current rate,is going to prompt a shortage of law enforcement officers,it will prompt and has already prompted alot of them to seek other employment.
This is a travisty considering that crime rates can and will go up as the number of people enforceing laws go down. All the more reason to hang on to my protection tools.NO 1 at the other end of the 9-11 to come help me. OR perhaps the councilors they send out can coach me on how to take shallow short breaths to speed up my dieing on the ground after being beaten to death by thugs.
There also exists video of Floyd resisting, not willing to comply with commands and not willing to just sit in the dam vehicle...Why resist...I do say Floyd and Chauvin were both wrong...But one lost his life...Was the officer to blame or were there mitigating factors ie. CAD, cardiomegaly, drugs...Blackwell stated that Floyd's therapeutic level of methamphetamine was below normal...Anyone here ever here of a therapeutic level of methamphetamine???Not to mention fentanyl which in this case was also illegal...We all know he was trying to swallow the pills and spit them out in patrol vehicle...How many had he taken before the incident???
Tecsan you are just one in a long list of people that believe that just because a lawbreaker dies by the hand of a cop we should just look at all the reasons why the cop should go free.CAD, drugs, bad timing,fentanyl, all should be reasons to KILL the person they are arresting. After all, blacks and other minorities are guilty until proven innocent and as such, they are fair game to kill or maim without expecting more than a few days behind a desk.Way to go Tecsan. Now we know
And people like you believe that Floyd is innocent as hell...Dam druggie...Non conpliant ass he was...Who the hell acts like that in a food store...Who the hell spits out meth laced with fentanyl in a police vehicle...Who refuses to get in a police vehicle after being advise he/she is under arrest...Stop and answer them questions...
And yet ,the judge saw fit to seal the jurist id's for 6 months. I hoped it could be longer for their safety.
There is major issues with this whole event.and calling it murder does not solve anything.
I think they were under pressure to bring justice to the proceedings. You can say what you want. The cop was guilty of murder and that’s how they voted.
Maybe or maybe not...But you just admitted the jury was under pressure to bring justice to the proceedings...Whose form of justice are you speaking of, yours, mine or half a million other people...
Appeal will be based mainly on Maxine...But, fear of reprisal from rioters should be focused on too...What would the town look like today if Chauvin was found not guilty???
Tecsan if I don’t agree with you I’m biased? If that’s true then you are biased too. The majority of the electorate of this country thinks Biden is better than Trump. Biased? The majority of the Democrats think Republicans lost their balls and are biased. Democratic bias?
Right behind the impeachment trial verdict of that Clown, Trump --------------------------------------- added after 17 minutes
Who Is Judge Peter Cahill? He presided in the George Floyd trial. He was appointed by a Republican governor and re-elected twice in 2014 and2020
Cahill, 64, a Hennepin County Judge, was appointed by former Republican Gov. Tim Pawlenty to the bench in 2007. Voters then elected him again in 2014 and 2020, and his current term expires in January 2027.
Get him out and appoint a Democrat
Cahill is sweating in his black robe...Like I have been stating the jury was swayed by media...As for a Rep judge, I do not think it matters...Cahill was wrong by not sequestering the jury from the get go...Probably will bite him in the ass...
Is begging for your life combative?
Yes, white people get killed by police too. People are not protesting police violence
for the fun of it, they want changes. They demand rules for some checks and balances on the police, which would also protect white lives.
--------------------------------------- added after 52 minutes
Ananas, ZeroHedge
Does this white mans life not count? To me he matters!
If you think backtalk is enough to kill someone over, you are calling for fascism.
Even if it was true that "Portland police rush to tell BLM the person they shot & killed was white so no need to protest." (which I don't believe), then who is wrong there? The Portland police.
If you don't want white people being killed by the cops either, join the protests.
Maybe the government would actually do something about police violence,
if it wasn't only black people protesting.
If your country doesn't solve your police violence problem, the protests will continue and become harder. If you think you can suppress the protests, you are wrong.
If you want an actual civil war, keep supporting cops murdering black people.
How should I know if that white guy who was killed was not actually threatening
the lives of the police or innocent bystanders? Should I just take your word for it?
I'm sure it happens, but I'm also 100% sure black people get killed for less
than white people and more often.
Still, It's the best way I have ever seen to get rid of an annoying liberal.
had they got involved, then yes,perhaps guilty of something.but they stood by and let chauvin do his thing on his own,shit in his own bed or whatever you may call it.
in numbers.
About 2x as many white people are killed vs black. However black people are 13% of your population, so black people are 3.8x more likely to get killed by police.
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In relation to crime; in total 2.6x more white people get arrested than black people.
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So, it's true that more black people are getting killed by police, because black people commit 2.9x more crimes per capita.
However 3.8x more black people get killed per capita vs 2.9x more black people commit crimes per capita.
Do you think that people should just trust that the police doesn't kill anyone
without cause?
Or do you think some protest is warranted, as long as they were 100% peaceful
and they didn't call themselves 'Black Lives Matter', but something more neutral,
like 'Stop Police Violence'?
At one point it will be someone you care about. You can prevent it by demanding basic humanity from your cops. Getting rid of the police is bullshit (that's not what defund the police means, that's a strawman), you actually set standards on police
and enforce them, just like the police does to you.
You are the employer of the police, you pay their salary. Would you accept violent, abusive behavior from your employees, if it was your business?
Fox4: Video shows officers laughing, fist-bump after arresting woman with dementia:
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Fox didn't show the actual conversation. CBS did:
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From outside, it looks like there's
a constant mini war going on in the US,
one whose intensity is growing year after year.
I'm not a sociologist or historian but
when a country reaches the level that
most people are so scared that they have
to equip themselves with dozens of guns,
pistols, machine guns, bazookas, ... I don't
know what, then you know that that country
is in decline: its inhabitants do not trust
one another and feel they need to have mini-armies.
And the police force is encouraging violence.
And people believe that this is normal.
Why don't they read some history or look
around to see that this is evidence of
decline? Even if they have 10 or 100 times
the number of guns they have, it's futile.
I don't know what to say. It's so sad.
I feel sorry for all the people there
that feel constantly threatened.
Ideally, police shouldn't have guns either.
Someone tries to steal candy from a shop,
or pay with fake notes, or commits a minor
crime.... you don't send a policeman with a
gun there. Unless everyone is loaded with
bullets and guns then, I get it, guns
bring guns, violence begets violence,
it's a never ending vicious circle.
I'm so happy I live in a place where I'm afraid
of nothing. We can live the doors unlocked,
nobody has guns, we just have to deal with
pretty thefts occasionally.
Like I said in another thread,don't like cops,fine,just don't dial 911.
They have a important job.without them,it would be stone age behavoir.
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The few times I have used it I found it to be very frustrating.
The operator ask 5400 questions so fast you can't answer the first 1 and if you are in the middle of a emergency,say someone dieing, you find yourself trying to help the dieing ,and wanting to cuss the dumb bastard out over the phone asking you your name,your date of birth and so on while you simply asking for EMS to come quick to 3421 East first street quick to save a persons life.
Let me reverse the question and you'll understand. Do you know the emergency phone number in Macao?
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We like to live peacefully and not own much, not eat much, not have big houses. Possessions, we know, make you a slave, just like drugs do. In fact, one of the reasons that people take drugs is because they may have lost 1 million out of their dozens of millions. The more you have, the more you worry, the more anxious you are, the more guns you collect, the more drugs you take, the more unfulfilling your life is. Having nothing is of course terrible, but having a lot is equally bad. So there's an optimum. If one has a little money, enough food to eat, few posessions and lots of friends then one is maximally happy.
no reason not to trust people.
I leave my door unlocked and it's fine.
Not always, but quite a lot.
My neighbours do the same.
There's nothing to steal anyway because
we're not rich. Maybe a thief can take
the radio or the computer. I don't care.
Never happened. We don't need guns here.
That's why I say I'm lucky.
In bigger cities there's police who help.
But, unlike what we read about the US,
police do not kill. I do understand that
weapons are needed in the US because the
society is built on guns and if everyone
else around you is armed, then you feel
the pressure to get armed too. I do understand the rationale
governing your society, but not
many societies in the world are like this.
After all I read, I'm really scared to
go again to the US for any extended
periods of time. Because I'd have to buy
guns. And this would make me kill someone
and killing another human being, even
when fully justified, is, for me,
something that I wouldn't be able
to live with in my life.
I'd probably end up with severe guilt
and depression. Like the kind of things
that happen to soldiers who are
forced, by the nature of their job,
to kill human beings.
I agree with what you say. If there are many criminals around with guns then the whole dynamics changes.
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Please tell me what Starbucks has to do with the verdict? Why should that company,or anyone for that matter ,experiance a financial loss because someone was not happy with a verdict?
Below is an overview of the period 2016 - 2020:
2016
Number of shooting incidents: 34
Number of injured: 33
Number of fatalities: 4
2017
Number of shooting incidents: 23
Number of injured: 20
Number of fatalities: 3
2018
Number of shooting incidents: 27
Number of injured: 26
Number of fatalities: 3
2019
Number of shooting incidents: 16
Number of injured: 12
Number of fatalities: 4
2020
Number of shooting incidents: 22
Number of injured: 18
Number of fatalities: 5
We do have some Extraordinary Investigating Officers that do not carry firearms.
In Norway most policemen keep their firearm sealed in a locker in the patrol car.
In the UK, most policemen don't carry firearms.
The difference is that your police is trained to escalate and our police is trained to DE-escalate.
I don't need guns, like Americans do.
How sad can they be for feeling afraid,
every day, so afraid, it's a war there.
Thanks for the statistics.
Actually, I do think the idea of a war zone in the streets of the US is also exaggerated by the media. They show the Black Lives Matter protests as violent mobs, but most are peaceful. The media blames murders to the BLM movement, that have nothing to do with it. The agenda for that is making it possible to beat down those protests harder and not do anything about police violence. In one state they proposed to make it legal to drive into a protest. They also proposed to hold everyone accountable for one person in a protest doing something illegal and detaining everyone until trial, without bail.
Both parties are unwilling to do anything. The Democrats were happy Chauvin got found guilty, mostly because it gets the pressure off to do anything about police violence. I've seen a sickening speech from Nancy Pelosi, where she thanks George Floyd for 'sacrificing his life for justice'. How fucking stupid is that. He was not planning to die that day and his death is just proof that justice is miles away. One asshole cop being convicted doesn't change anything.
Somehow, the police in the US should be told not to kill whenever they feel like it. But it's a complex problem. In a society where guns are everywhere, how do you deal with that?
in The Netherlands (Mannen = males, Vrouwen = females):
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And here is how the US compares with the rest of the world
(Up to 2017. It probably takes more time to collect all global data):
Sources:
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Was he trained to do that? There are lots of complaints that he did it before...
Didn't you say "all lives matter"?
Chauvin clearly intended to kill Floyd, while there was no danger to anyone,
so Chauvin is a murderer.
There are circumstances in which a cop should be punished less severe than a civilian for the same offense, but these are not such circumstances.
Chauvin is one of those 'rotten apples' that need to be dealt with. If he hadn't become a cop, he would have probably turned out as some sadistic murderer.
I do think he should not be put in prison between regular criminals, because that is cruel and unusual punishment.
at an alarming rate. Should the cops preventively kill you?
I don't think he deserves an even worse prison time than any civilian murderer.
If you put him between them, he will likely be killed very quickly. I don't think he deserves a death sentence. I also think 'prison' does not equal 'revenge'.
Prison is punishment, but it should also be rehabilitation. Not rehabilitation as a cop or any other job where he has the power to hurt people, but after he has served his time, let him be productive in a safe way.
The problem is that recidivism is than very high as well, so the prison population doesn't go down. It's a perpetuating cycle.
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It does strike me how you compare a bad cop with a child molester. Chauvin is bad, but he is also a victim of your system. Less than Floyd, but still worthy of some sympathy. He might be a bit easier to rehabilitate than a child molester.
The greatest? Depends on your personal preferences. I can see how the US checks all your boxes. I hope you can understand how a lefty like me would be miserable living in the US, even though I think I would do pretty well economically.
I'm already getting quite depressed from living in The Netherlands, which is
socialist compared to the US. I sometimes dream about moving to Denmark.
You don't get killed.
In civilised countries, that is.
Anyway, it's not my problem. But I just feel sorry for you and all Americans who have to live under these conditions.
Your empire is crumbling and it's all your own damn fault.
You will never get anywhere, if you don't start working together.
The jury was exsposed to Aunt Maxine and her threats of confrontation and inciting violence in round about ways.
They were confronted with the law enforcement gathering in preparations for the verdict. Their id's are vulnerable and could be leaked for violence against them and their homes,familys,bussiness's,hell their city in general.
Had the thug been left in the back seat for ems to deal with,none of this would be going on.So chavin did fuck up to a point but Murder? Hell no.
As for the jurys safety,hell,I wouldn't doubt that their names are on a hot list already to be ticketed and generaly annoyed by law enforcement member that feel like they and their coworkers were stabbed in the back.
Can you imagine trying to enforce a law now in that state?
Difficult at best.
I have some questions. Why are you and some other members so rabid to make the cop be right and Floyd wrong? What bothers your sensibilities so much? Would you feel the same if a white guy had died?
The enforcement of the law is not predicated on the general public making it easy. If you are a good person you don’t need a cop to tell you how it’s done. And if you break the law, a cop or cops will stop you.
As for the Kneeling,there was evidence shown in the trial that indicated that may or may not have contributed. The "Beyond the shadow of a doubt" thing comes to mind when presented with the evidence of OD and heart issues.
That is why I have said that a lesser charge would have had more merits that murder.
To make the cop the bad guy totally in every friggen case that gets tossed to the court of public opionion,such as this forum, prompts people to have even less respect for the cops just simply doing their jobs.There was crooked and bad cops long before you and I were born and there will be plenty after we are gone.
But to continue at the current rate,is going to prompt a shortage of law enforcement officers,it will prompt and has already prompted alot of them to seek other employment.
This is a travisty considering that crime rates can and will go up as the number of people enforceing laws go down. All the more reason to hang on to my protection tools.NO 1 at the other end of the 9-11 to come help me. OR perhaps the councilors they send out can coach me on how to take shallow short breaths to speed up my dieing on the ground after being beaten to death by thugs.
There is major issues with this whole event.and calling it murder does not solve anything.
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Who Is Judge Peter Cahill? He presided in the George Floyd trial. He was appointed by a Republican governor and re-elected twice in 2014 and2020
Cahill, 64, a Hennepin County Judge, was appointed by former Republican Gov. Tim Pawlenty to the bench in 2007. Voters then elected him again in 2014 and 2020, and his current term expires in January 2027.
Get him out and appoint a Democrat
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