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Started by #485312 [Ignore] 15,Dec,20 18:50
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Why do you want to die of pollution so badly?
But why do you hate public investments so much?
The Scandinavian countries have become incredibly rich from their public investments in fossil fuel investments the last many decades and now they are reinvesting that public capital in renewable energy. They not only have the highest percentages in renewable energy, it has created a social security capital of incredible value for their citizens, their national debt is very low, and they're becoming energy exporters, with the Swedish national energy company Vattenfall making big profits selling their great value electricity on the privatized markets of the other European countries.
Private investments make money for billionaires, public investments make money
for the citizens. It's easy to understand. It's COMMON SENSE!!!
You are describing PRIVATE investments.
The military, fire department and police are publicly funded.
Corporations, companies and mom and pop shops are privately funded.
Do you think Sweden's renewable energy is funded by; 1 person investing a million, another investing $450 and a third investing $10?
Or are you a million years old, and it's personal observation?
Now the owners of all these homes with government paid for insolation, can't sell them because the banks won't lend money on them. Government approved work, warrantied work , but still ,won't loan money on the house. so the folks are having to try scrap the shit back out of their attics themselves or face a huge labor bill to do it.
There are many ways to insulate a house, that do not have this problem.
Spray foam insulation has it's uses, but it's dumb to use it everywhere.
That's not the fault of "do gooder government programs", that's the fault of stupid people using cheap crap or bad building companies selling people cheap crap.
Maybe these people were warned against it, did it anyway, and are now crying foul.
A friend discussed having his cavity walls filled with spray foam insulation. I advised against it, unless he found a company with a very good track record, and he wasn't going to skimp on the price. Some bad companies have been poisoning people with cheap foam and some houses have been damaged by the walls getting dislocated from the foam expanding too strongly. I've advised him to insulate his floors and roof instead,
but I would never advise anyone to use spray foam for that.
His house also has the worst double glazing that was ever sold and his windows and balcony door don't close properly. My brother will fix those problems for a tight budget,
as soon as he has time available. Improving a house with insulation requires a brain.
If you just have some company spray foam everything, you might ruin your house.
Just because some people were dumb, doesn't mean insulating houses is a bad idea
or the government is bad for incentivizing it. Don't abuse some anecdote to forward
your propaganda. Insulation reduces energy costs and increases the value of a house.
But, like with everything else, if you are doing it wrong, you will mess it up.
I know it exists, but I have heard of no one who used spray foam insulation for their floor or roof in my country. Maybe Americans are more cheap and lazy than Dutch people.
If that is your claim, you need to show the evidence for that.
Did your government pay for it completely? Total reimbursement?
Or was it a subsidy or a tax deductible?
Why? To incentivize insulating homes, of course.
We have the same system. We can get subsidies or tax deductibles for solar panels, double glazing and home insulation. It helps people reduce their carbon emissions, reduce costs and increase their quality of living.
They don't of course intentionally spend money to damage people's houses.
If you think that, right-wing propaganda messed-up your brain.
Either someone in the government fucked up or companies are taking money from the government, try to make the most money from it and don't care that it hurts people.
Government officials often make bad decisions, because they don't know shit and never listen to anyone who does know. This is exactly the type of officials Trump wants to fill the government with. They will all be stupid as fuck, because Trump only cares that they are loyal to him, so better get used to it becoming much worse.
The Green Homes Grant scheme, which ran in England, saw installations completely subsidised for those on certain benefits.
I think this means the UK government paid for this to be done to 250,000 houses!
It looks like a lot of people got money from the government to insulate their houses.
I guess that very much angers you. You seem to think only wealthy people should
get money from the government.
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The following insulation measures were covered by the voucher:
solid wall insulation (internal or external)
cavity wall insulation
under-floor insulation (solid floor, suspended floor)
loft insulation
flat roof insulation
pitched roof insulation
room in roof insulation
insulating a park home
I see no obligation to use spray foam insulation. However, cavity wall insulation,
that's usually some kind of foam insulation, because there is no other way to insulate a hollow space trough a small hole.
In any case, I watch a lot of home makeover TV shows. On the American and Canadian shows, like Love It or List It, Fixer Upper and Celebrity IOU, I've seen them use spray foam insulation several times. I've NEVER seen it on Dutch home makeover TV shows. I can also not remember it ever being used in my favorite British home makeover TV show; DIY SOS.
Trump is going to destroy The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB).
That's an agency which has the sole purpose of protecting consumers from...
"fraud type things".
How do you protect people from getting defrauded by businesses like that?
REGULATION! And things like quality marks. And giving people access to the
court system and equal justice, instead of corrupt judges who are put in by Trump, to favor big business. And laws that make it illegal to scam people, which would e.g. send Vivek Ramasmarmy to jail, for scamming investors.
Trump will give businesses full rein to scam you, steal from you and destroy your property, if they can make money doing it.
1 of these big universities that had safe spaces for the students after Trump won the election, that the very folks that would allow themselves to be indoctrinated into driving electric cars, is now saying don't charge them at night.
Like when the hell do you charge it if not during off peak hours from industrial demand????
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So now we are going to have "water nuts" trying to put water back in the ground to retilt the earth? Or do we just tax water? that's it,a tax will fix it, fixes everything else right?
What you should care about is completely using up all the ground water, because then you cannot use it anymore. A lot of American agriculture is depended on that ground water, and when it's gone, that agriculture becomes impossible or economically not-viable. In any case, the prices for groceries you pay now will be dirt cheap in comparison.
Chicken little was alive and well way back when!
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Aoc said we had 12 years in 2019 so um.
AOC said we have 12 years to DO something, NOT 12 years to LIVE, dumb-ass.
We had 12 years to reduce the carbon emissions by a lot, because at some point,
which was then estimated to be around 12 years from then, chain reactions make it
very difficult and much more expensive to stop climate change.
When forests turn into deserts, because areas are getting too hot for trees, or they
get destroyed by wildfires, that's a chain reaction. It doesn't mean we all die right then,
it just means the worst of climate change becomes inevitable or it requires the total collapse of civilization to save humanity.
You worry that climate action will return us to the middle ages. If humanity had started doing more a few decades ago, that wouldn't have been necessary at all. Most of the energy would have already been coming from renewable sources. However, the longer humanity waits with the energy transition, the more drastic measures will be necessary. You're supporting the culture that results in humanity having to return to the middle ages.
If humanity doesn't do anything, the climate disasters will make the middle ages feel like
a walk in the park.
Some of the points of no return are already flipping. Many of the predictions have been proven too be too optimistic and instead of following the mean predictors, the reality actually follows more the worst case predictors.
Either you don't understand it or you are straw-manning.
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if it is this simple,why don't we all just bring our mirrors out of the bath room and put them out in the yard to reflect the sun back to it's self??
It's all funded by the fossil fuel industry, so they can keep polluting the Earth.
Just as the campaign "Protecting Our Planet Starts with You".
All funded by the fossil fuel industry, to shift the responsibility away.
By the way, I don't want to breath diamond particles into my lungs.
I don't think that's particularly healthy.
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Do you think everyone is still using the same thermometers as 100 years ago?
We have seen the fastest temperature rise in the past few decades, when the technology of measuring basic shit like temperature has been the most accurate ever.
This is at a level of flat earth 'science' ridiculous. You're kidding right?
How about the measurements of the CO2 concentration rising?
How about all the glaciers disappearing?
How about just basic human observation, that it is getting fucking hot more often
in summer and way less cold in winter?
now just who subsidized this project, and who will have to cough up repair cost?
Now tell me, how many coal plants were damaged in the hurricane?
have a flood? Kill the officials in charge
Hurricane Helene is flooding many parts over there.
And how about South Carolina? Mass flooding over there too.
With at least 25 killed in South Carolina, Helene is the deadliest tropical cyclone
for the state since Hurricane Hugo killed 35 people, in 1989.
you might like that way of Trump being "the boss" too. Trump
Seeing the ocean was at record high temperatures, every meteorologist predicted
a heavy hurricane season. It's not good that it happened, but to be expected.
It's just going to get worse.
I can't get it to open as i don't pay for the service but there is a new article out now about climate change.
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"why have average temperatures in the Arctic dropped by 0.88°C over the past 50 years?"
No idea how they claimed it then, but it's certainly wrong now:
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Your second link refers to Bjørn Lomborg as a scientist, but he is not a CLIMATE scientist or PHYSICS scientist, he has a PhD in POLITICAL science. His environmental economics research is based around the claim that climate action will be more expensive than the effects of climate change. To support his claims, he has widely underestimating the effects. He wrote about the global warming "hiatus", in the 2010s, which were shown to be based on faulty statistics. He predicted that the earth would have stopped warming by now, but instead the earth is warming up faster now, than in the 2010s. He was wrong then and he is wrong now.
The guy comes from Denmark, a country which is running on 81.4% electricity from renewable sources. Their government debt accounts for 34.0% of the country's Nominal GDP. Their living standards are among the highest in the world. Obviously, their climate action has not damaged their country. His own country is proving him wrong.
That Newsmax article starts with "Polar bears are thriving.."
That's a lie, about 26,000 animals of one species is not "thriving",
that's at best a lower risk of them going extinct soon.
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so the globe doesn't care about US, it cares about the plants
Most humans at least care about themselves, but even that is not unanimous.
In any case, I think it's in my own best interest to care about humanity and the world.
I'd like humanity to be humane and the world to keep being hospitable.
I can do two things at the same time; I concentrate on what improves my own life,
while also doing my part in improving humanity and the world, because they AFFECT my own life.
Focusing on making more money is futile, if the world around me turns to shit.
I cannot buy a ticket to a better world. Elon Musk seems to think he can (Mars),
but he is stupid that way. We would need to completely destroy Earth, for Mars
to suck less.
You don't practice what you preach. You are focusing on the world around you more than me. You are always talking about how you want to shape your country to make lazy people work and to keep out immigrants. The difference between you and me is that your priorities for the world are shaped by learned animosity towards other poor and powerless people, who are just trying to survive under difficult circumstances, while my priorities for the world are focusing on the wealthy and powerful people,
who actually have a choice in the circumstances they create, for themselves and EVERYONE ELSE.
It's just a fact, and the sooner people start accepting facts - or provide verifiable data that can be held to peer review to show they are not facts, the sooner we can get past this silly debate.
The amount of greenhouse gasses emitted today, and every day is extremely large. Meanwhile the atmosphere is not. Sure, it looks infinite on a clear day, but fully half of that air is packed within the first 18,000 feet - or 3 miles. That's a distance a reasonably healthy child could walk if it were not straight up.
The atmosphere we live in is a lot less than we perceive it to be with our eyes, and the number of tons of greenhouse gasses greatly affects the capture of heat. That's not subject to serious debate. It's simply a fact. And for one to deny it only demonstrates their lack of reason.
Nothings perfect but this climate change thing is alot of bs.
It was global cooling then global warming and since that didn't fit, they call it climate change.
If your government invested public money into renewable energy and kept ownership of the production, you would have a massive return on investment for the public.
Now it's just wealthy renewable energy moguls competing with wealthy fossil fuel moguls. YOU PERSONALLY supported that system and now you argue against it?
Who gets rich of fossil fuels? In capitalism, there is always someone on the end
getting rich of EVERYTHING, no matter if it's good or bad.
That's why I support a specific version of socialism, that benefits the public
with everything good and eliminates as much as possible everything bad.
I call it social capitalism; democratic control over the capital, the means of production and labor. When you go to work, democracy stops and you are in a dictatorship.
I support democracy, not dictatorships. Stop supporting FEUDALISM!
You don't care about a million times worse pollution, when fossil fuels are causing it,
so stop using it as an argument to push those fossil fuels.
Global cooling was one article decades ago, before decades of reality statistically confirmed global warming. They changed the term to climate change, because it's just the GLOBAL AVERAGE temperature going up. That can cause fluctuations in weather patterns other than just warming. It can cause floods here, droughts there, and all sorts of other extreme weather including short local periods of extreme cold. Mostly those cold periods are getting rare, but there is a possibility of them returning.
The global saline gulfstream is being reduced by melting water from all the land-ice melting away. When that gulfstream stops, no more cold water is transported to the equator and no more warm water is transported to the arctic. That makes the warm areas warmer and the cold areas colder. It's possible that Scandinavian countries get colder and South American countries even warmer. That's why it's called 'climate change', because global warming IS JUST AN AVERAGE.
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You are the first person I ever heard from who ever mentioned global cooling in this current era. That must be a joke. If not, it removes your opinion from any serious conversation about the topic.
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they call it a conjecture but if you remember the dinosaurs were thought to be made extinct by volcano emissions not letting the sun in allowing the earth to cool
The funny thing is, the government thinks our memorys are to short. they try to put all knowledge online so it can be changed with a mouse clic and no one can verify something they saw days before.much less decades .
I had the foresite to save alot of books and such in my youth and I am so glad I did.
Almost no one remembers Y2K. A BIG bogus bunch of shit that cost the world millions of dollars to turn out to be a big nothing. global cooling, Y2K, now, climate change. which hoax will you fall for today?
of anthropogenic WARMING dominated the peer-reviewed literature even then.
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It's just propaganda from big oil, to keep pointing to 'global cooling'.
We now have over 50 years of additional data, clearly showing a global average temperature INCREASE, that can only be explained by emissions of greenhouse gases from the use of fossil fuels, breeding of livestock and by the reduced capacity of nature to absorb greenhouse gases due to the destruction of forests.
Actually, there is lots of evidence for the extinction of the dinosaurs having been caused by a huge asteroid or comet slamming into the Yucatán Peninsula 65 million years ago, blocking sunlight, changing the climate and setting off global wildfires.
It left the Chicxulub Crater, which is 125-mile-wide. Asteroids and comets have relatively large abundances of iridium. There is a layer of iridium-peppered rock,
65 million years old, all over the world, but with the highest concentrations of iridium, the closest to the impact site. Volcanoes don't contain high concentrations of iridium.
True, volcano eruptions can also affect the climate, which is why they need to be accounted for in climate change statistics. They can measure the effects that the Krakatoa eruption of 1883 had on the climate. It cooled the entire Earth by an average of 0.6°C for months.
Y2K wasn't bogus or a hoax, it was just fixed by IT specialists, by adding two digits
to the dates in all the important software. Easy, but damn important.
Before you mention it; the hole in the ozone layer is now slowly shrinking,
because the world heavily regulated chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs).
Any other misinformation? DAMN!
And no one has ever responded to a basic question alot of folks have.
IF the global cooling and other stuff was misinformation, how do we know we are getting facts in regard to the latest rage of climate change? 20 years from now i could be vindicated as it could be discovered the Luminati was behind it all!
I know,i am being silly with the luminati thing but just used it for a example.
The misinformation is the claim that global cooling was just as widely accepted as global warming. It wasn't in the 1970's and it certainly isn't now.
If the Illuminati tried to meddle with temperature data, that would be identified by everyone and anyone involved. Temperature measurement data is recorded everywhere and can be checked against lots of other measurements, history and just the memory of people. They would have to break in to every public and private meteorology organization in the world, to fake the data, which would then not agree with books, newspapers, photographs, etc. The data is correct. Do you agree or not? Then it's just a matter of statistics. The trend is just apparent, any way you look at it. All the measurements go up, no matter if you look at the poles or the equator or you backyard. Sometimes you deny this fact itself, sometimes you acknowledge it, but claim it is a natural trend. Well, to justify a natural trend, you need to explain not just the temperature rising, but also the carbon dioxide concentration rising. Is the upwards trend in the carbon dioxide concentration also faked by the Illuminati? Every laboratory worth a dime can just measure it, whenever they feel like it and come to a very similar carbon dioxide concentration, of around 422.10 ppm today. Can that be faked? Or were all the lower measurements in history faked?
I'm curious how you explain that two sets of data, that can be verified in millions of ways, are faked.
Can they fake my decades old memories and photographs of my brother and me playing in the snow, making snow forts and snowmen, having snowball fights and skating, most winters? Just like me, many people have photos and memories of white Christmases and icy new-years. There are records and scars of broken bones due to winter weather. All of that history, slowly changing to the new normal today, where I hardly need a winter coat. People had snow-tires and snow-chains in my youth, while I recently considered if I still need all-weather tires or just rely on summer-tires. Can the Illuminati fake all of that?
Those are all things happening in one life-time. For everything else, I do have to rely on science. That doesn't mean you have to TRUST science. You don't, you VERIFY science, against all your data and all your knowledge. If their information or deduction is wrong, it wouldn't be difficult to see. I have enough scientific experience to identify it being wrong enough to fake a conclusion. There are tens of millions of people with more scientific experience than me to identify mistakes or meddling. Are all those people dumb or dishonest? Are they all bribed by the the Illuminati? Why would all those people want to believe or accept bribes to lie about a global problem of such impact to everyone's lives? Don't you think I have better things to do? There are enough problems to solve already. I wouldn't want to believe this, I just cannot help to accept it, because reality itself demonstrates
it's the truth.
Scientists are often wrong, that's why science is a process of checking each other. Here is an example of a science article being wrong and one scientist looking over it and seeing many mistakes in just minutes.
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She looks at climate science too. She considers most of it to be too careful.
There are millions like her. There are only a few that say climate change is wrong and the use your arguments; simplistic bullshit that only fools people like you.
The fact that you must cling to the idea that they once suspected it was caused by car exhaust, and can't seem to get past that it wasn't 100% accurate, and you can't seem to have a flexible mind to accommodate new information is why I have to completely dismiss your ideas. Nobody had the proof of a large meteorite that struck and so obviously they had other ideas about dinosaur extinction. Scientists adapt to new information. You should too.
But then you start adding that crap about how "the government...", as if there was a single entity that is out to get us all in some grand conspiracy.
Too bad you didn't use your "foresite" and reading to learn how the word foresight is constructed. Too bad you don't realize that the millions were spend prior to Y2000 to preemptively *correct* the problems that could occur if nothing was done. It was a "big nothing" because people addressed the problem. Unless of course you believe the weirdos that were saying that at midnight planes would fall out of the sky.
This all goes back to my initial remark. It doesn't matter what you believe or not. Science has established facts as well as human beings are able to establish. Anecdotes about them being wrong are laughable. If you want your ideas taken with any seriousness, provide verifiable data. A few little random "factiods" doesn't cut it.
You don't know a damn bit more than anyone else.you just know what you believe because someone with a degree and some funding tells you this and this and you eat it up.
Think vacuum cleaner salesman, same as a scientist ,trying sell a vacuum or trying to sell a idea, theory, for more research funding.
How many of these experts are working for free or expenses only?
good for you.
so you hadn't been out of college long before i was in college learning how to write computer language and such
They refuse to believe facts that debunk their beliefs, they don't have any facts that support their believes.
All over Eastern Europe are now huge areas flooded from ridiculous amounts of rain. That can happen in the US too.
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How about hurricanes, extreme heat, wildfires and drought?
It's not just your own damage that impacts you.
If your countrymen get flooded, that impacts you too.
It will impact your economy and how much taxes you pay.
Damage to infrastructure needs to be paid for, by you too.
It affects the political choices that affect you too.
It impacts the prices you pay for food, water and power.
And even the availability of food, water and power.
You're not alone. They faith of all people is connected.
They keep flipping from point 1 to point 3:
1) Nothing is happening
2) OK, something is happening, but it's natural
3) OK, maybe humanity is causing it, but we cannot do anything about it
I say to that:
1) Really? Am I imagining things?
2) Oh? How then?
3) Why? Why can't we stop causing it? Are we lemmings?
When something is true, you shouldn't have to flip between arguments.
Which side is consistent and has the answers to the questions?
I guess you are at point 2) or 3)
I think in solutions, preferring to prevent the harm, instead of imagining
a place to hide, when the world turns against us for destroying it.
Humanity has survived by solving problems. Should we stop doing that
just because some wealthy assholes make a lot of money from fossil fuels?
Why? Wealthy assholes can make money from renewables too.
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